size of library

size of library

Postby soul4hdwn » Sat May 31, 2014 10:49 pm

this might be an odd question but... how large is the library? it has an upstairs, a (i don't remember if used) roof, and a questionably large modified sleeping area. is there any indicators of the library's capacity? is there room to open up either a connection to an abandoned building, or possible clarification on its inner volumes?

then on a more modding direct question (the above is slanted in both general and dev question), isn't there a way to read how many npcs are in bunker?
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Re: size of library

Postby Wahn » Sat May 31, 2014 11:33 pm

Well, it's a converted abbey/monastery, so I'd expect they took a fairly large room like the monk's dining room or the chapel itself (see below), and put in a second ceiling to have room for books.
Image
Starting from a dining hall, one could go to an even larger library room by taking out some walls to more single rooms and just leaving columns in place.

One thing is for sure - the building has been heavily modified, as classical abbey don't come with fallout shelters attached. Though maybe they started out with the crypt under the church proper itself and expanded on that. No matter what, you can expect lots of extra rooms available in the library - there's the computer rooms mentioned in the description, and there would have to have been more deeper in the building (to house monks and whatnot) - now likely used for storage (I've set a scene with David and Brutus in one of those)
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Re: size of library

Postby Wahn » Sat May 31, 2014 11:49 pm

soul4hdwn wrote:then on a more modding direct question (the above is slanted in both general and dev question), isn't there a way to read how many npcs are in bunker?


-> the number of people in the Bunker <- (be aware that that counts the player too if he's inside)
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Re: size of library

Postby TigerStripes » Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:19 am

The way I picture it, the library is a small to mid-sized city library. It is nowhere near the size of the main branch at the Central Library, but it is still fairly large. While it has changed over time as the game's expanded, here's roughly how I picture the current iteration of the Grey Abbey Library.

Main floor:
Most of the main church hall and ground floor has been converted into the library space. The main area the player occupies is mostly made up of the central hall. During the renovation, most of the old walls were knocked out, though a few rooms remain for uses aside from housing stacks of public books. Aside from the library stacks, there's a central open space for seating, tables for reading and working, as well as a public computer area (where the computer in the game is currently located). Aside from this main area, the vestry and some of the side rooms have been converted into semi-private rooms with larger tables for groups to work without disturbing those in the library or into office space and employees-only spaces for the librarians. At present, there's been no need to make these into actual rooms, though I have a few back-burner ideas which would use them. There has been the occasional scene (e.g. Fang + Sandra threesome) which occurs in the side rooms. I imagine Snow's converted another of these into her hangout/workshop and Bad Alexandra's pups use another as their personal hangout room. The employees-only spaces would include stuff like an office, the sorting room, the private stacks (for older, rarer and books viewable only by special request), a break/lunchroom, etc. There's also a non-functional public restroom. There's nothing of note at present in these spaces and areas such as the office and sorting room are presently loosely considered part of the ground floor library room in the game. For example, the computer in the game used to be described as located in the office, or at least behind the checkout counter.

2nd Floor:
The second floor has much less floor space as compared to the ground floor. This is in part due to parts of the abbey only being a single story tall and the larger open space overlooking much of the ground floor's old main hall. The second floor is divided into three main parts: the second floor library area, the rafters and the attic.
- Second floor library: I imagine it to occupy about 60-75% of the second floor. Much of that space is converted from the living quarters of the old abbey, though a couple of the rooms still remain (one private room for public groups and a washroom). It is reached by a curving set of stairs leading to an initial balcony area overlooking the ground floor's more open spaces with the library stacks behind that. Unlike the ground floor, the second floor of the library has limited seating space. There is some comfortable seating by the balcony area next to the main stairs up; this is where Tehuantl and Bubble generally hang out. Aside from that, there are a few of those one-person cubicle desks you see in libraries. These are placed individually or in pairs scattered around the second floor. Hayato squats by one of these, as he prefers to stay more out of sight due to his frightening appearance and his infection's general tendencies to mountain solitude.
- Rafters: The rafters occupy the open space overlooking the ground floor of the library beyond the balcony. They can be reached with a daring jump or by flyers. They branch off from the large, wooden pillars spaced within the old abbey's main hall and are interconnected by beams running north/south and east/west. Modern lighting is hung from these to illuminate the library during the evening and they probably once held old iron chandeliers before the remodeling. This is a space used in some descriptive scenes and is described as where Icarus is usually hanging out even though he's a 'ground floor' NPC.
- Attic: Past the rafters opposite the second floor library section is the attic. This is a small room (probably 5-10 meters deep) that is only accessible by a three story tall ladder or by crossing the rafters. It occupies a space above some of the employee-only areas like the office and was largely unknown or forgotten by the staff due to its inaccessibility. In the game, it is used as a secluded spot for the violent/guro content with Icarus and shouldn't be used for anything else to avoid conflicts.

Bunker:
As Wahn suggests, this was probably built into the crypts beneath the old abbey, though it was probably expanded. Made during the Cold War, it was a driving factor in why the city/state went through the trouble and expense of converting the old abbey into a library in the first place. Having grown and expanded from the initial game, it is capable of housing at least a couple dozen people, though a number is never explicitly stated. It is accessed via a large steel locking door. It is probably about a story and a half in height, with a short set of iron stairs leading down from the door to the main floor. There's numerous rows of bolted down cots occupying much of the space. There's a (non-working) washroom, a storage room (supplies gone bad/consumed by the player before the game's start) and probably one or two other rooms, though no explicit mention is made of these in the game. I imagine the library's boiler room is also located down there, also unmentioned.

Wahn wrote:
soul4hdwn wrote:then on a more modding direct question (the above is slanted in both general and dev question), isn't there a way to read how many npcs are in bunker?


-> the number of people in the Bunker <- (be aware that that counts the player too if he's inside)

Alternatively:
To count the the number of people in the bunker (not including the player and Velos), you can use:
Code: Select all
the number of bunkered people

To count the the number of people in the library (not including the player, Velos and Trixie), you can use:
Code: Select all
the number of booked people

Using these gives a direct count of the number of NPCs occupying the location, as Trixie is OOC and Velos is occupying the player. :)
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Re: size of library

Postby soul4hdwn » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:17 am

jesus... well thank you very much. i'd say "extremely much" but thats a little fumble grammarly. =p

i'll have to research Icarus a little but thats negligible issue thats an easy fix in flavor. the real issue was, would be if there be problems for something "size 5" based npc in the library. i can picture a behemoth for a poor example, taking too much room, even in the thorough detail given. i was ready to use the roof and/or establishing a connected building of roughly same size (as the "main floor" in size is good enough space alone... if nothing around).

of course thats only depends on a split-off in character development. i've taken a long break, as i simplified something i did in the past, it turned into an npc instead of a creature. as its more logical and clearer to perform with the same complexities compressed.
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Re: size of library

Postby Wahn » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:54 am

Hm, besides pure height, all the bookshelves and furniture would make it difficult for a big creature to fit in the main library. And the roof might crack. Letting a behemoth dig the floors and inner walls out of an adjoining building or the other side of the street might work better.
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Re: size of library

Postby TigerStripes » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:59 am

soul4hdwn wrote:<scale-5 NPC>

You're welcome and our thanks to you as well. It was a good opportunity for me to get my mental picture of the place put together and written down.

Yes, a scale-5 NPC could fit in the library (since a scale-5 player can), though they'd not be able to go everywhere. Part of that would depend on where in scale 5 they are, since it technically has no upper limit. Using the Behemoth as an example, it has a 16 foot long body and a 9 foot long tail. Given its description, it could be nearly as wide as it is long. The library has large double-doors, remnants of its day as an abbey, so entrance is possible. There's a sizable open space in the library's foyer which the creature could occupy. The ground floor seating is below the rafters, so there'd be both more headroom and elbow room there. Like Wahn said, it probably would not be able to peruse the stacks and the side rooms only have man doors, so impromptu demo would be needed to occupy one of them. Traveling between the library and the bunker would likely be possible (since a huge player can do it), but it'd be easier for bunker NPCs to come visit it than the other way around. As Wahn suggests, 'remodeling' a nearby building would be another means to house a huge NPC. The library could either be given a conditional description to mention the adjacent building if said NPC is booked, or a new room could be made to represent this surrounding buildings. Unless there's a compelling reason, since they can probably defend themselves, it might be better to leave them in a fasttravel location of their own.
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Re: size of library

Postby soul4hdwn » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:24 am

hmm potentials and adjustments yeah. i already planned on making small modifications when needed, a neighboring building notably. i was double checking if was necessary to begin with and how little i could modify to avoid awkwardness.

the funny thing, because you brought up being able to defend themselves, this specific version can defend itself. the difference is that i'll enable switching states. i noticed recently wahn has the orc david branch into different types. the method he done so is almost like my plans, except that i wanted an opening (with a large cooldown and requirement) to swap versions.

i'm currently making rough draft of events (a quest line), which might be a little too concise to point of telling instead of showing. my weakness in writing is that i tend to over specific or summarize excessively, or i use too much dialog to do the describing. when i'm not brief, it takes too long to get a specific moment usually though. *self doubter*
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Re: size of library

Postby soul4hdwn » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:29 pm

final question about the library itself before i make a thread posting mostly text only rough draft of my project.

how lit up is the library itself and in general? the attic is very dark and there's a monastery stained glass large window on the top + front/side.

then off-topic-ly, how large is "size 4"? i think i'm skipping creatures or something as i can't find anything. i'm pretty sure one can fit into a described side room as i'm mentally scaling for something between 3 ft taller or a taur body structure to a max of twice human height.
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Re: size of library

Postby Blue Bishop » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:34 pm

soul4hdwn wrote:final question about the library itself before i make a thread posting mostly text only rough draft of my project.

how lit up is the library itself and in general? the attic is very dark and there's a monastery stained glass large window on the top + front/side.

then off-topic-ly, how large is "size 4"? i think i'm skipping creatures or something as i can't find anything. i'm pretty sure one can fit into a described side room as i'm mentally scaling for something between 3 ft taller or a taur body structure to a max of twice human height.


Approx. visualization of player scale to height in feet:

1 - =< 3
2 - 3-5
3 - 5-6
4 - 6-10
5 - => 10

Infection source doesn't strictly adhere to this rule. This is blatant in monsters like the Sierrasaur or Yamato, but is much more subtle/debatable with other creatures. This also entails standing height, and not body length; a quad would be taller if on its hind legs, but this isn't taken into account.
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